But Luffy (and Coby) did save Zoro's life, after all, and I think Zoro's always felt himself tied to Luffy because of that, even though he repaired the favour immediately when he struck down Morgan. That wasn't getting even, that was serving the captain he'd already accepted. Very true that Zoro didn't need Luffy to set out on his goal - he'd already been doing that, for some time - but that goes for Robin as well.
Hmmm. See, the thing with this is, I think, that both WA and I kind of dismissed the Morgan “rescue” from way back in the beginning of our discussion as not being quite comparable to the ways Luffy inspired, saved, and/or enabled the dreams of the rest of the crew—he saved Usopp's village and his personal friends and believed unconditionally that he could be a brave warrior of the sea; he listened eagerly to the story of All Blue and didn't scoff at it, and then inspired Sanji to stop chaining himself to the Baratie because of his guilt and debt and to pursue that dream (although I also feel that watching Zoro's utter abandon to his dream while fighting Mihawk contributed to this); he liberated Nami and her village from Arlong and just relentlessly demonstrated over and over again that she was his nakama and he'd never go back on that; he saved Chopper's country and celebrated without fear and with inclusiveness his 'monster' status and dragged him out to sea, which was always his dream; he chased Robin to the Government's doorstep and declared war on them and got her to admit she wanted to live and be with them purely because 'she's their nakama', when she had always, always been betrayed before; saving Robin included helping Franky by extension, but also Luffy's unflinching declaration of war to save his nakama was a slap to the face of the government that killed Franky's mentor, as well as the fact that Franky's own ultimate dream (that he had given up, before Luffy came along) is tied to and enabled by Luffy completing his journey on Sunny; and then of course Luffy almost literally pulled Brook out of a grey, tragic, 50-year nakamaless purgatory and brought him the news of Laboon's survival and continuing fidelity.
On the other hand, I personally have a very hard time seeing the thing with Morgan as Luffy really 'saving' Zoro at all, and I definitely don't see anything like the catharses with the other crewmates I mention above. I think I don't quite see it as 'saving', strictly, in large part because Zoro was very laughably more powerful than his 'captors', had agreed to be held there on a compassionate whim, and basically just required somebody to cut the rope (not necessarily Luffy, Coby was working on that, too) and get him his swords so he could nonchalantly bust asses. The whole thing took like 15 minutes, probably. :|a
And I've actually never quite believed that Zoro felt tied to Luffy due to that 'act of being saved', specifically. (Despite Coby's line of 'Zoro-san is the only one who can save Luffy-san, Luffy-san is the only one who can save Zoro-san', or however that went.) I've always thought it was Luffy's behavior during that whole incident that created the initial acceptance. It seemed like Zoro observed all of Luffy's words and deeds while he was tied to that cross—that he was crazy enough to walk into the Marine courtyard and try to recruit Zoro, and then that he was moral and straightforward and unwavering enough to just reject and tear down the people perpetrating the injustice, etc.—and then their instinctive understanding and wordless rapport slotted into place and he just went '...Hah. Okay, I like this guy. Yeah, fine, I can follow him—up to a point.' At that point it didn't feel like Zoro's choice to follow him had much in common with the others', in the sense of 'inspiring me to my dream/enabling my dream/freeing me from bonds and demons (imposed either by myself or by other people)/rescuing me from a real, frightening threat/giving me a place to belong and people who care about me, at last'.
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Date: 2010-08-28 08:51 am (UTC)Hmmm. See, the thing with this is, I think, that both WA and I kind of dismissed the Morgan “rescue” from way back in the beginning of our discussion as not being quite comparable to the ways Luffy inspired, saved, and/or enabled the dreams of the rest of the crew—he saved Usopp's village and his personal friends and believed unconditionally that he could be a brave warrior of the sea; he listened eagerly to the story of All Blue and didn't scoff at it, and then inspired Sanji to stop chaining himself to the Baratie because of his guilt and debt and to pursue that dream (although I also feel that watching Zoro's utter abandon to his dream while fighting Mihawk contributed to this); he liberated Nami and her village from Arlong and just relentlessly demonstrated over and over again that she was his nakama and he'd never go back on that; he saved Chopper's country and celebrated without fear and with inclusiveness his 'monster' status and dragged him out to sea, which was always his dream; he chased Robin to the Government's doorstep and declared war on them and got her to admit she wanted to live and be with them purely because 'she's their nakama', when she had always, always been betrayed before; saving Robin included helping Franky by extension, but also Luffy's unflinching declaration of war to save his nakama was a slap to the face of the government that killed Franky's mentor, as well as the fact that Franky's own ultimate dream (that he had given up, before Luffy came along) is tied to and enabled by Luffy completing his journey on Sunny; and then of course Luffy almost literally pulled Brook out of a grey, tragic, 50-year nakamaless purgatory and brought him the news of Laboon's survival and continuing fidelity.
On the other hand, I personally have a very hard time seeing the thing with Morgan as Luffy really 'saving' Zoro at all, and I definitely don't see anything like the catharses with the other crewmates I mention above. I think I don't quite see it as 'saving', strictly, in large part because Zoro was very laughably more powerful than his 'captors', had agreed to be held there on a compassionate whim, and basically just required somebody to cut the rope (not necessarily Luffy, Coby was working on that, too) and get him his swords so he could nonchalantly bust asses. The whole thing took like 15 minutes, probably. :|a
And I've actually never quite believed that Zoro felt tied to Luffy due to that 'act of being saved', specifically. (Despite Coby's line of 'Zoro-san is the only one who can save Luffy-san, Luffy-san is the only one who can save Zoro-san', or however that went.) I've always thought it was Luffy's behavior during that whole incident that created the initial acceptance. It seemed like Zoro observed all of Luffy's words and deeds while he was tied to that cross—that he was crazy enough to walk into the Marine courtyard and try to recruit Zoro, and then that he was moral and straightforward and unwavering enough to just reject and tear down the people perpetrating the injustice, etc.—and then their instinctive understanding and wordless rapport slotted into place and he just went '...Hah. Okay, I like this guy. Yeah, fine, I can follow him—up to a point.' At that point it didn't feel like Zoro's choice to follow him had much in common with the others', in the sense of 'inspiring me to my dream/enabling my dream/freeing me from bonds and demons (imposed either by myself or by other people)/rescuing me from a real, frightening threat/giving me a place to belong and people who care about me, at last'.